Abner Ramirez is trying to describe the last two years of JOHNNYSWIM’s life.
Fun? Sure, technically. Somewhere in there, fun happened. But fun feels too small for what he and Amanda Sudano Ramirez have been building: a full musical based on a beloved novel, roles in an intimate indie film, a coming JOHNNYSWIM album and a stripped-down worship project born out of years of grief, prayer and late-night living room songs.
For most artists, the next chapter after two decades looks predictable: anniversary tours, deluxe reissues, maybe a tasteful acoustic project. JOHNNYSWIM apparently looked at that playbook and decided it seemed too small.
“I don’t think fun is the thing I would call it,” Abner said. “I would call it novel, unique, an absolute adventure.”
Adventure, in this case, has meant stepping into rooms where neither of them was entirely sure they belonged.
A few years ago, Abner and Amanda were focused on what JOHNNYSWIM has always done: writing songs, touring relentlessly and building one of the most devoted fan communities in independent music. Today, they’re juggling a stage musical, a feature film and a growing list of creative ambitions that stretch far beyond the boundaries of a band.
The surprising thing isn’t that they’re doing all of it. It’s that they seem energized by how unfamiliar it feels.
“One thing I’m really proud of us for these last couple years of creative endeavors is we’ve continued to challenge ourselves,” Abner said. “We’ve put ourselves not a small distance from our comfort zone.”
Building a Musical From Scratch
The biggest leap started with a question.
Their theater agent suggested they read One Day, David Nicholls’ bestselling novel that later became a hit film and, more recently, a wildly successful Netflix series. Naturally, a musical was to come next.
What sounded exciting on paper quickly became one of the most demanding creative projects either of them had ever tackled.
JOHNNYSWIM had experience writing songs inspired by stories. During the pandemic, they created Songs to Strangers, a project where they met people online, listened to their experiences and wrote songs based on them, often turning them around within hours.
Musical theater required many of the same instincts. It also required learning an entirely different language.
“We can write that so-and-so walks in and they sing something to the other person and then somebody else walks in,” Abner said. “But then the choreographer might go, ‘We actually can’t do that because they have to do a quick change in the back.’”
A song could be emotionally perfect and still fail to serve the production. A scene could work beautifully in a writing room and completely fall apart once actors, costumes, lighting and staging entered the equation.
“You create, create, but then you edit hard,” Abner said.
The process revealed the differences in how the couple works.
Amanda naturally gravitates toward structure. Abner chases instinct.
“A lot of times songs, I see as an outline form,” Amanda said. “Like I’m still in college writing an outline before I write the paper.”
“The last thing I want to do is write an outline for anything,” Abner replied.
Somehow, that’s exactly why the partnership works.
The two have spent more than two decades collaborating as musicians and nearly every aspect of life beyond that. They raise children together. They run a household together. They build careers together. The musical simply made them more aware of when one person needed to lead and when the other needed to step in.
“There were times where I was like, ‘I have nothing for this song. I don’t even know what to say. I have no ideas,’” Amanda said. “And he was like, ‘I got something.’”
The pressure felt different from anything they’d experienced with JOHNNYSWIM.
“This is our first big commercial project,” Abner said. “There’s a pressure to it that exposes cracks but also exposes strengths.”
Then came Edinburgh. The production made its regional debut at the historic Lyceum Theatre, giving audiences their first look at the show after years of development.
Ramirez remembers walking into the theater during rehearsals and seeing the thing they’d been carrying around in their heads finally become real.
“The lights, the actors are in costume, the wigs are on, they’re mic’d up, the band’s playing and they’re singing the songs,” he said. “It was absolutely breathtaking.”
One actor noticed him standing there, overwhelmed.
“He says, ‘Look at this,’” Abner recalled. “‘You guys did this.’”
Naturally, he also started crying.
“It became an ongoing joke that Abner was just always weeping through the process,” Amanda said.
He’s not embarrassed about it.
After all, the musical represents more than a side project. It represents a new creative lane altogether.
“We’ve been touring and performing and writing songs as JOHNNYSWIM for almost 21 years,” he said. “It’s so exciting to have something new that we’re doing, that we’re birthing, that will live for a long time.”
Stepping Into the Movie
The indie film Stages arrived through friendship.
Director Ryan Booth has been a longtime friend of the band, and when he started developing the project, JOHNNYSWIM wanted in.
“Whatever Ryan wants to do, if we can be involved in it in any way, the answer’s always yes,” Abner said.
The resulting film, which premiered this year at SXSW, follows musicians navigating life, ambition and relationships while weaving together live performances and narrative storytelling.
JOHNNYSWIM contributed songs to the project, served as executive producers and appeared onscreen themselves.
The experience introduced a completely different challenge: acting. Abner approached it with enthusiasm; Amanda approached it with caution.
“Originally I think the scene was just me with the kid and the main character,” she said. “And then maybe a few days before we were flying to Austin, Ryan was like, ‘OK, we changed the scene.’”
Suddenly she was playing a pivotal emotional confrontation.
“I was like, ‘So that’s a scene where I would have to act.’”
To prepare, she met with Booth and worked through the material. When cameras rolled, she found inspiration in a familiar place.
“I just tried to channel anytime I’ve ever been mad at Abner into that,” she said.
The strategy worked. Watching from video village, Abner immediately recognized the expression.
“She had a look in her face that, boy, have I seen and I know,” he said.
The performance landed so well that he accidentally interrupted a take with his reaction.
For all his confidence, Abner admits acting came more naturally because the role wasn’t dramatically different from who he already is. Sudano Ramirez had to disappear into someone else’s emotions entirely.
Even after the film premiered, she struggled to watch herself on screen.
“I literally was just holding two of my friend’s hands and cringing,” she said. “I was like, ‘I can’t watch it. Somebody talk to me.’ Meanwhile, Abner was like, ‘Great, I did great!’”
The contrast says a lot about how they operate. It also highlights what keeps pulling them toward new experiences. Fear isn’t necessarily a sign they shouldn’t do something. Sometimes it’s the reason they should.
Before work began on the musical, Amanda remembers talking about his imposter syndrome with actor Jesse Plemons.
Plemons surprised her with some sound advice.
“He goes, ‘Everybody has that. That’s the most normal thing. You’re not even doing it unless you have some level of imposter syndrome.’”
The conversation stuck.
“It gave me permission to actually feel the imposter syndrome and not let it shut me down,” she said.
Returning to the Songs That Matter Most
Despite all the new creative territory, the most personal project on the horizon may be the simplest one.
For years, the couple has hosted informal worship nights with friends at their homes. These were nights where things were stripped back, friends and family coming into their home to let go and worship.
Over time those gatherings became an anchor through some of the hardest seasons of their lives, including the loss of parents and other deeply personal struggles.
“One of the things that’s always been an anchor for us is being able to pray and worship with our friends,” Abner shared..
Now he’s recording an acoustic worship EP called The Songs That Got Us Through It.
The concept is intentionally simple. No elaborate arrangements or even an attempt to reinvent songs people already know. Just Abner, a guitar and the worship songs that became part of his family’s story.
“Some of them are old, some of them are newer,” he said. “They are really the songs that got us through it.”
Abner is clear that this isn’t JOHNNYSWIM’s big pivot into worship music (although it’s never a bad idea to hold out for hope). He sees it more as opening the door and inviting listeners into something that’s already existed for years.
“I’m going to invite you into our communal time with our friends of song,” he said.
The project feels fitting for a season that’s become increasingly focused on expansion rather than reinvention.
JOHNNYSWIM hasn’t abandoned what made the band special. If anything, these side roads seem to be strengthening the main road. Because Amanda and Abner wouldn’t be the artists they are if they weren’t working on another JOHNNYSWIM album in the midst of the most creative season of their lives. To top it off, they’re gearing up for a fall tour while continuing to prepare One Day for a West End debut sometime in the near future.
It’s a staggering list of projects for two people who already have demanding careers and four children at home.
Yet neither sounds interested in slowing down.
“I love musical theater,” Abner said. “I love what we’ve been able to accomplish with One Day: The Musical. And I cannot wait to hear the next JOHNNYSWIM album because it will be a pleasure, an absolute privilege and pleasure to write.”
