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This American Life tackles an interesting theme this week: church planting.

In the first act of the story, reporter Eric Mennel—who hosts the podcast Start Up which is following the creation of a new church—tells the story of pastor Watson Jones, who is working on planting a church himself. It’s a fascinating look at Jones’ work.

The prolog to the episode features quotes from Redeemer Presbyterian Church pastor Tim Keller, who they refer to as the “Yoda of church planting.”

Back in 2017, This American Life’s Ira Glass explained to RELEVANT why the show frequently tells stories from the Church that feature real Christians:

I feel like among a lot of the secular press, the word ‘Christian’ is kind of a weird word. Whereas I feel like all the Christians I know are really wonderful, and it seems like a really great thing to be. In the media, it just seemed like whenever there was a Christian character, it was like the most doctrinaire, stiff-necked, doesn’t-listen-to-anybody, kind of corny version of an intolerant person. And y Christian I knew was exactly the opposite that: great listeners, super concerned about people, utterly compassionate.

You can listen to the show here.