Controversial author and former megachurch pastor Rob Bell recently sat down to tell The Big Think with an interesting take on sermons. Using Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s I Have a Dream message as an example, he says that sermons are not just for religious people who already agree with the preacher.

He talks about the sermon as an art form that some are trying to reclaim, listing all of the many experiments he’s attempted in his career as a preacher. “It’s history, and it’s anthropology, and it’s theology, and sometimes it’s funny, and it’s pop culture, and it’s data that mashes all together.”

He says that sermons give us insight and inspiration and meaning, which he describes as “oxygen for the soul.” No matter what your opinions are about his theology, this is a really interesting watch.

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