Rapper Lecrae was recently a guest on the popular radio show Sway in the Morning, and the duo had a really interesting conversation about music, marriage, faith, nationalism and more.

One particularly interesting portion of the conversation was when the duo began to discuss modern American Christianity. Sway expressed his reservations with the “business of religion,” and Lecrae broke down the difference between empty religion and true Christianity.

He also discussed collaborating with artists who don’t share his values or his lifestyle, and how he uses his platform to develop relationships and share his faith.

When asked about Christians who are more judgmental and legalistic, Lecrae explained,

I think a lot of their perspective is adopted from white evangelicalism, or, what I call Ameri-Christianity, and not the authentic eastern mindset of it.

So, you’ve adopted more of a nationalism than you’ve adopted a faith, and you’re following in line with that. So it’s making you hate you’re own kind. It’s making you very condescending, making you self righteous, making you feel like you’re better than other people, and not making you realize that, man, grace is the only difference between me and somebody else.

He then explained how when visiting Egypt, he saw Coptic Christians and Muslims holding hands, working together and living together in real community. “I would love to see more of that on this side,” he said. “I would love to see more relationships and bridge building.”

You can watch the whole interview below. (Warning it contains some strong language throughout.)

You can watch the whole interview below. (Warning it contains some strong language throughout.)